Talk Digest, Vol 42, Issue 10

Mon Feb 12 12:24:45 PST 2007

If online crimes are being committed a search warrant can be obtained for the information.

Why shouldn't your surfing habits be a safe as your checkout records that the library or your conversations with your doctor?

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at seattlewireless.net [mailto:talk-bounces at seattlewireless.net] On Behalf Of talk-request at seattlewireless.net
Sent: 2007 February 12 12:00
To: talk at seattlewireless.net
Subject: Talk Digest, Vol 42, Issue 10

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: SF WiFi: ACLU slams final San Francisco Wi-Fi contract
      (Tyler van Houwelingen)

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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 11:09:10 -0500
From: "Tyler van Houwelingen" <tyler at azulstar.com>
Subject: Re: SF WiFi: ACLU slams final San Francisco Wi-Fi contract
To: "SeattleWireless Talk List" <talk at seattlewireless.net>
Message-ID: <D041818FEA23442DACF7CA4F487D2E61 at TylerGateway>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

we have had funny conversations about this for one of our networks with the public safety guys on one side and the ACLU on the other!   Anonymity and ISPs do not go hand in hand.  If you do not know is using your network, you can 

1. Get into a lot of trouble once an unknown user starts to do bad stuff using your network. (eg. terrorism, kiddy predators) 2. Be unable to prevent serious network issues due to attacks.

To quote Scott Mcneely, "You have zero Privacy. Get over it"

ty

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Kimo Crossman
  To: 'Yournet at hotmail.com' ; 'SeattleWireless Talk List' 
  Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 1:04 PM
  Subject: RE: SF WiFi: ACLU slams final San Francisco Wi-Fi contract

  Who will protect the poor and privacy careless then?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  From: Yournet at hotmail.com [mailto:yournet at hotmail.com]
  Sent: 2007 February 10 09:32
  To: kimo at webnetic.net; SeattleWireless Talk List
  Subject: Re: SF WiFi: ACLU slams final San Francisco Wi-Fi contract

  Too many demands will make providing public broadband infeasible. 

  My recommendations to Seattle's broadband task group was to further develop the metro area's fiber optic grid network into accessible nodes.  then open up those nodes for various competitive and community sponsored 'last mile' connection means including FTTH/P, WiFi MESH, WiMAX, GigE, and BoPL (broadband over power line)... or any other technology.  If the community wants to provide free WiFi or pay for FTTH/P, they would be able to tie into the fiber grid for back-haul and inter-network connections.  The problem with many of these plans is that they become tied up in politics or are limited to a prescribed type of technology.  Or they are open to political bickering about rights or users.  Let users decide among alternative offerings imo.  If Google or anyone else wants to provide service in exchange for ads and location based search, more power to them if users are willing to accept that.  But let both community sponsored and other private interests compete for the user's
  preferences.  "We don't collect your private information like Google" could be a good promotional point.  But if users don't care, I don't think advocates need to or should take the role of protectors.  Protectors like the ACLU should study 'chaos theory' in regards to the Internet and information fields.  

  ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Kimo Crossman 
    To: talk at seattlewireless.net 
    Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 8:49 AM
    Subject: SF WiFi: ACLU slams final San Francisco Wi-Fi contract 

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/infoworld/20070207/tc_infoworld/85861_1&printer=1;_ylt=Aj3QLoC00glBVFby1b7r8Li73MMF

    ACLU slams final San Francisco Wi-Fi contract 
    Stephen Lawson

    Wed Feb 7, 5:52 PM ET 

    The ACLU has turned up the political heat on EarthLink and Google's plan for Wi-Fi in San Francisco, telling the city's Board of Supervisors that the proposed contract doesn't have enough privacy or free speech protections.

    The ACLU of Northern California said in a letter to the supervisors on Tuesday that both EarthLink's paid service and Google's free offering would fall short of most of the group's recommendations on collection and sharing of personal data and possible tracking of users. Among other things, there are no limits on what kind of information EarthLink can or will collect, and terms for the Google service call for requiring "minimal" information on login without defining "minimal," the letter said. In addition to privacy concerns, the group is worried that knowing information is being collected will cause users to limit what they say and do on the Internet.

    The city and EarthLink agreed on a contract last month, and EarthLink is confident the closely watched project will get off the ground with deployment of a proof-of-concept network starting in April, said company spokesman Jerry Grasso. But the proposal has been under fire since before the contract was completed, and some members of the board have said a municipally owned system would be better for the city.

    EarthLink negotiated the deal with the city and would build and operate the network, bringing Google in as a tenant providing the free, slower service. Some critics have warned that San Francisco could be giving a virtual monopoly on citywide Wi-Fi to private companies without ensuring user privacy or complete coverage.

    The ACLU said a municipal Wi-Fi network should let users opt in or out of any service that collects data on what they look at or search for on the Internet, or their e-mail messages. There are no provisions for that in the paid or free service terms, it said. EarthLink can only save location information for 60 days, but there's no limit to how long it can store personal protected information and no limit to how long Google can store any information, the ACLU said.

    Users of the EarthLink service can opt out of receiving marketing materials, but EarthLink has free reign to share personal information with partner companies that help it deliver or promote the service.

    Both service providers can hand over users' personal information for law enforcement or national security reasons without a warrant or notification of the user, though they would require "court-ordered documentation" before doing so. If information is sought for a civil suit, EarthLink or Google would have to tell the user first.

    EarthLink's Grasso declined to comment on the ACLU's letter, saying EarthLink has not seen it. Google and city representatives could not immediately be reached for comment.

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End of Talk Digest, Vol 42, Issue 10
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