SF WiFi: Mayor loses vote on EarthLink Google WiFiinitiative

[Todd Boyle]

At 12:06 AM 2/18/2007, Matt Westervelt wrote:
>Let me put it this way Todd.

OK, thank you for your analysis of the state of SWN and community wireless.

Your analysis is that community networks
  - are sufficiently cheap, and
  - are sufficiently easy to install, and
  - lack only "a few people to actually setup key spots".

Then, it seems logical to talk about a PR effort.

I tried to discuss what might be going on inside those people's minds
but you didn't like my comments!   What is your analysis, then, of
what's going on in their minds?   Do they just lack awareness of
the benefits?  of the positive cost/ benefit on this?

That will be ok with me, to serve as the straw man, as usual,
if you want to refer to them all as "todds".  That's quite
useful because it helps us understand the "matts" as well
as the "todds".   Actually our models of what is really happening
are highly congruent.   We seem to be engaging in some form
of persuasion project, to somehow make other people perform
some role that goes beyond their self interest, in these circumstances.

I think our difference might be, in my model, building and maintaining
a CWN node goes beyond their *actual* self interest at the present,
while you're asserting that it only goes beyond their *perceived*
self interest, or they're somehow not relating to it-- they're not
bonding with it, or identifying with it.   That's entirely possible, Matt,
I think most people's consumer behavior, even lifestyle, clothing,
etc. are not predicted on a cost/benefit, rationalistic model but
on the whole marketing-types of analysis.

Todd

>The Ruckus CPE to connect to the Google WiFi network in Mountain View
>costs 100-150. People don't really mind spending the money to connect to
>a network once it is bootstrapped. I wouldn't really call the google
>network a community network.
>
>The big problem community networks have is bootstrapping. Bootstrapping
>a community network takes a few people (not 40 million) to actually set
>up key spots that people can connect to, and interconnect with. The
>tools to do so were not available 7 years ago, but they are now. They're
>not drop-dead todd simple, but they're not exactly rocket-science
>either. Setting up a mesh is about as simple as telling the box "You are
>a mesh node, here is your name and IP" and plugging it in. Todd, you
>haven't followed any of this, but every now and then you get it in your
>mind that things are not progressing, so you come in here and say "Why
>isn't this working?". Well, it isn't working for you, because you're not
>willing to put forth any effort other than an email or two, and it does
>take more than that. I'm not blaming you for your economic theories, I'm
>telling you that you're a crackpot, and your theories aren't valid.
>That's completely different. You say you don't think it would make a
>difference if you studied and learned anything to your neighbors, but I
>think you're wrong there too. I think it would make a lot of difference
>if you actually knew something about what you were talking about. Even a
>little bit.
>
>You haven't looked at any of the tools available. For the most part,
>everything that you want is available on a web page. I'm pretty sure
>'normal people' can handle that.
>
>I also doubt that your neighbors are as dense as you think.
>
>-matt
>
>
>Todd Boyle wrote:
> > At 05:48 PM 2/16/2007, Matt Westervelt wrote:
> >
> >> > ... people might buy a thing if it was like, $50 to 100.
> >> At $50 to $100, you're never going to find anything that does what you
> >> want.
> >
> >
> > It is not *my* supply and demand curve. It's the whole region's supply
> > and demand curve. There's 4 million other people in the puget sound
> > region. You can address your statement just as well to them.
> >
> > I'll quit complaining about the pricing on the supply side if you quit
> > blaming me for the low prices offered on the demand side, two sides of
> > the same coin.
> >
> > You're completely missing the point, the spirit of my email. I'm
> > presenting my theories of why SWN didn't get mass adoption or grow
> > geometrically etc. only because somebody asked. I am not making a
> > statement of what the device is worth, or even what it's worth to me.
> > The only thing that matters is, what's it worth to the people in my
> > suburban area? Such that a sufficient number of nodes got installed.
> >
> > I've told you the device would have to be turnkey, and it would have
> > to be real cheap. I could be wrong. But that's still my belief.
> >
> > Should I be ashamed to admit that I don't know how to configure a
> > linux host or an AP for bandwidth sharing?
> >
> > Maybe. But that would not make one bit of difference if I study, and
> > learn, and practice, unless my neighbors also learn how to do it. I'll
> > be happy to introduce you to some of my neighbors--- they are nearly
> > TOTALLY impervious to any stimuli that doesn't come either from their
> > family, or their boss or client. It doesn't matter what you try to
> > talk about. They just don't absorb. They have attention spans of only
> > a few seconds. And they are so far from wanting to learn linux
> > sysadmin or wifi configuration! Seriously! It has to be something you
> > plug in, and it just works.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > ps this was written by an earlier generation of highly talented unique
> > guys,
> >
> > Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth,
> > And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
> > Sunwards I’ve climbed and joined the tumbling mirth
> > Of sun-split clouds ­ and done a thousand things
> > You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung
> > High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there,
> > I’ve chased the shouting wind along and flung
> > My eager craft through footless halls of air,
> > Up, up the long delirious burning blue
> > I’ve topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,
> > Where never lark, or even eagle, flew;
> > And, while with silent, lifting mind I’ve trod
> > The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
> > Put out my hand, and touched the face of god.
> >
> > Somehow, this by Jethro Tull seems more appropriate,
> >
> > So you ride yourselves over the fields and
> > you make all your animal deals and
> > your wise men don't know how it feels to be thick as a brick.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
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> >
>
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